You know what they say about that first step....?

[Gertrude86]

Hey guys, I have a huuuuge favor to ask. I think i'm about to get in a bit over my head.. Gertrude is a 1986 BWM 325e …. And my coolant is a dark green/brownish color and I have gummy white-ish foam at the top of the reservoir cap…. I’m told that this is due to a problem with my head gasket and that I need to fix it ASAP.

I can’t afford (nor do I really want) to get it done by a mechanic. I have a Haynes repair Manual and I have a Bentley in the mail (it’ll be at my house by Monday) but I’m curious if anyone has any advice as to what else I should do… things to check, things to replace, that kind of thing. Or any advice as to things to avoid or any other advice.

Thanks guys, this’ll be my first serious project and I’m a bit… hesitant

[ShowCar]

I'm sure you'll be fine. There's a lot of E30 knowledge floating around here.

Good luck, take lots of pics!

[EWAustin]

Do the timing belt, tensioner, and water pump while you've got the head off.
Just take your time, follow the instructions in the bentley manual (throw the haynes away) and everything will be fine. And remember, there's no such thing as too clean.

If you've got any specific questions once you're underway don't hesitate to ask. There's lots of e30 and general automotive knowledge around here.

[John2.0T]

that white foamy stuff is a mixture of coolant and oil...

and yes - those are definitely symptoms of a bad head gasket.

[Fearnside]

That is a bad thing. Like eric said, do the timing belt, water pump, tensioner whil you are at it. It takes like 15 min to rip apart the front of that motor. I did it not long ago on my E30. Super easy. Do the valve cover gasket as well. 2 min to do.

[Die Frau]

Good luck, Greg.... major props for tackling this yourself!

Are there any kits are places that are recommended to buy parts?

[Gertrude86]

Wow guys, thanks for all the help! I just ordered a Timing Belt and Tensioner Pulley kit ($30) a Water Pump and Gasket ($50), a valve cover gasket ($9) and 4 Rocker Shaft Plugs (this part was recommended to me by the online vender (www.bavauto.com (http://www.bavauto.com/)).

Hopefully they’ll be at my house by the middle of the week. On Monday, once my Bentley manual comes in the mail, I’ll see what tools I’ll need to buy.

I wonder how much more this would have to have been if I had gotten it done by a mechanic…. 3x as much?



As soon as I get started I'll start taking pictures!

[Die Frau]

Well, figure it will take a mechanic 1/2 or 1/3 the time it takes you to do it. Then times that by $80.00 / hour. + retail price of parts.

I know the going rate on a timing belt with the 1.8T is in the neighborhood of $700.00 P&L, I did mine for $350 in parts and an afternoon.

Make sure you take VERY good pictures before you start and as you go for reference. Also, if you go in stages, sort out the nuts and bolts into groups using bowls or a muffin pan so that you know what goes where.

Also, when the Bentley comes, look at the instructions carefully before you start. There will be bolts/nuts/fasteners they recommend replacing once they are removed, as they are tightened to their yield point when they go on. Re using them might be fine, but why risk it. Also with a car that old, some will be rusty already. When I put things back together, it is always a lot nicer to use new bolts when I can. When I re-did the suspension/subframe last fall, I spent $50.00 on new bolts alone. These you can likely source at a dealer, but they might need to order them, they usually show up in a day or 2.

You might want to think about renting/buying a torque wrench. And deff. get some extensions for the ratchet I bought you.

[Die Frau]

Found this for you... not sure if it helps much, or if it is even your engine... but the tips might be good to follow any way.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/tech_main.htm

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/101-Projects-20-E30-Timing-Belt/101-Projects-20-E30-Timing-Belt.htm

Couple more things to note, take notice of the tension of the belts before you begin. Try to 'flip' them over and see how far over they go. This will give you an idea of the tension that is applied to the belt and you can try to achieve this when it is back together.

Also, before you remove the belt, take some nail polish or a paint pen and and make a mark on the belt AND pulley at the crank and at the cam gear. This way when the belt is off, you can count teeth and make new marks on the new belt, and they should line up exactly. This way you can be sure that the timing will be right when it is all back together.

If you need to remove anything like your distributor, keep in mind where it was when you started, sometimes these things have slotted holes for the bolts, so you can make adjustments. If you do not get it back to where it was, it may not run like it did. You can just do a very brief shot of spray paint on the bolts and bracket, just enough to 'shadow' where they belong.

When you are all done, before you start the car, remove your spark plugs and turn the engine over by hand, slowly. listen for anything that sounds weird or if you encounter any points of restriction.

[Gertrude86]

Hey guys, hopefully all of the parts will be in by tomorrow, and I can get started, but here are a few pictures that I've taken over the past few days.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3051/2295251920_75603c8ab5.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3173/2295254312_80b35a61c6.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3269/2294460319_210243c99c.jpg?v=0

The last two are the fun ones... the level indicator from my coolant reservoir and the cap. I can’t wait to flush that system.

[OptimusGlen]

as one of the few on here that have done a headgasket on an E30 I-6, I would set aside a whole weekend for it. Agreed, follow the writeups that are online, and in your Bently (you do have one right?) It should take you less then a weekend if you have the right tools, but set aside a weekend anyway.

Things get VERY tight toward the rear of the engine, get ready to be frustrated.

There is a pipe that goes between the intake manifold and the block, it sucks.

Plan on replacing hoses and vaccum lines. They're fairly cheap for the E30's, just replace them all.

Buy the correct tools (forgot if you need a 12pt or not for the headbolts)

Best bet it to remove the exhaust manifold from the downpipe, instead of removing it from the head. Using 3 or 4 extensions and coming up through the bottom of the car.

It's a sucky job, seriously. Probably equally as sucky as a timing belt on a 225 TT. Suckier then an E30 driveshaft/guibo/center bearing replacement on a wet floor in a cold garage in the winter. When I did the HG in my old E30 it took about 8 hrs, and we were doing it on a lift, in a shop with all the tools, with a friend who had done it before (THM3) helping and giving pointers.

[Philosomatika]

As someone who blows (read: used to, before my 16tHL ate it) headgaskets fairly often, I'd definitely check the block/head for any warping with a straight edge, skim any offending pieces (pray its the head, if anything, iron blocks SUCK to have to bring to a machine shop), and double/triple check the torque specs on EVERYTHING to make sure you've got it right. Otherwise, good luck! Props for doing it yourself.

Oh and I'm not sure what the discussion about tight squish motors is around here, but if you feel comfortable ordering a custom stronger gasket like a Cometic MLS that's a bit thinner, you can reap some of the benefits in a convenient way. Dunno if it would even help anything. Read up on it and see what you think.

[Gertrude86]

Thank for the help guys! I'm reading through the books 2 or 3 times today getting everything all set and i think i'll start it tonight.... hopefully i'll have it done by the time i have to go back to my dorm on monday. I have a neighbor that has a lift that i'm going to ask if i can barrow it, but either way i'm hoping i can start tonight. I'll start posting pictures as soon as i get into it.

again, thanks for all the help!

[Gertrude86]

HELP! PLEASE HELP!

I'm trying to remove the exhaust down pipe from the manifold and the bolts are totally stuck. I've tried PB blaster and it hasn't helped... Pete (die frau) has suggested torching them to try and break the seal, but I don't think i'll be able to aim the flames well enough and i'm a bit afraid of lighting a fire in such a small place. Its possible for me to remove the bolts that are attaching the manifolds to the head, but i'm worried that if i mess that up then it'll just compound my problems. Looking at the manifolds i only see 3 bolts per... but man oh man are they rusted.... i can PB blast them but its such a small space and I'm worried about rounding them off (something that has started to happen on the manifold/down pipe nuts...)



does anyone have any suggestions? would a small impact wrench work? do they even make small impact wrenches? I just don't want to ruin my engine...

[EWAustin]

Thwack them with a hammer a few times. Keep soaking them with PB Blaster. Make sure the socket you're using fits well, and use a breaker bar with a pipe if necessary.

It's not easy, but it can be done without heat.

Also, you can try tightening them just a little bit too, sometimes that will break them loose.

[Die Frau]

I think they got the manifold bolts off tonight and can wiggle the head out now... I am sure I will hear a lot more about this tomorrow.

Greg, I know there is another product too, called 'Liquid Wrench'.... not sure if it would really be any better. Sometimes that penetrating stuff needs to REALLY soak in over a few hours too.

Hope it all goes well!

[EWAustin]

in my experience PB Blaster is more effective than Liquid Wrench. Either one is better than nothing though.

[Gertrude86]

Hey guys, thanks again for the advise. There were twelve bolts that connected the exhaust manifold to the head... I was able to get them off after soaking them a few times (I was a bit nervous) and they came off easy as can be. In order to get the block out I may need to fanagle (not a real word and probably not the spelling.. but oh well) the exhaust.... which may mean taking the whole thing off in one... but I think that'll get it.


status update.... hood is off... radiator and hoses are off (i think i'll be ordering new ones for most of these) i removed the coolant and washer fluid containers to get better room... air filter is off... and about to get to the timing belt / tensioner pulley / water pump.... after that going to remove the head cover gasket... and then the head.

i'll post pictures tonight with another update


this is going to be crazy to put back together...

[Gertrude86]

and PB is my new best friend :-D

[EWAustin]

Good to hear it's coming along, keep it up!

[Die Frau]

Post more PIX damnit!

[Gertrude86]

LOL, I'll be stopping in the the next 45-60 minutes, i'll post after i clean up after that

[sgt snuffles]

yea , whenever i remove my oil cap i will see that same sh** on the cap and in the crank case...(the last two pics you posted) is it time for a new head gasket?

[Gertrude86]

That was what I used as an indication.... I did a compression test though (wet and dry) and that helped to pinpoint that it was indeed (oh man i hope) the head gasket. That may be a good next step for you.


Okay, pictures.

here's the car w/o the hood (so much easier to get to the belts)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2167/2306139333_b733d04291.jpg?v=0

and here's the head cover removed. I'm thinking that maybe the engine has been rebuilt. This isn't the best picture, I'll take more today, but there is almost no grime or buildup and I'm told that would be pretty standard with a car with over 256k miles. Hopefully today I'll get a good look into the head and can get some decent pictures of that too.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3079/2306939496_07b96ba85d.jpg?v=0

[EWAustin]

yea , whenever i remove my oil cap i will see that same sh** on the cap and in the crank case...(the last two pics you posted) is it time for a new head gasket?

His pictures were pretty extreme, most of the time it's just a little condensation build up in the engine. Causes can be a bad PCV valve, too many short trips, or even just the design of the engine (almost all dodge trucks do it). What would be more telling is the compression test like Gertrude mentioned, and checking your dipstick and coolant reservoir for that crap.

Also, you can try doing an engine flush next time you change your oil to see if it goes away for a while.

Oh yeah, BTW. When you see that crap, wipe it out. you don't want the moisture recirculating back into your engine.

[Gertrude86]

The head is off!!! Now i just have to clean it ... inspect it... and put it all back together!

I'll post pictures tonight :) :)

[Die Frau]

w00t! Good work!

[Gertrude86]

ITS ALIVE!!!!!!!! Started right up! Had an issue with a fuel leak, but sorted that out pretty fast. :) I'll post pictures tonight if i can (in class at the moment)

[EWAustin]

Good Work! Congratulations on your first head gasket :D

[Gertrude86]

Thanks! I think next I'm going to work on the suspension/wheels/breaks. If anyone has any suggestions of things they've seen, done or know work/don't work please let me know. I want it to be more agressive, but still look like the classy lady she is...

[EWAustin]

www.bmw2002.com is your friend.

If you find it there, it's cool for your e30 :D

[Gertrude86]

okay guys (and gals) I need to ask another favor of you please

So here's my current issue. I feel like my car isn't putting out all of its power all the time. Esp. when I first start out.... here's a play by play of it.... I turn the key and it starts right up, I NEVER have to turn the key more than once to get it turn over. It jumps to life (shoots to about 12-1500 rmp's then back to below 1k for idle). If I let it idle it'll go through phases, pretty normal, until it warms up. The problem though is when I first start driving... It feels like it doesn't want to go above 2000 rmps (almost on the dot) for a few miles. I can get up to speed b/c of how much torque it has but it takes a lot more effort/time than i feel it should. Then after a while I feel like its a whole different car... BAM there's power (BAM by comparison to where it was... not compared to your cars...) Also, this problem seems to happen every time I start the car up, even once its warmed up and i turn it off for ten minutes then head out again. It doesn't seem as bad at that point, but its still there.

I've been running mostly Shell V-power gas - do you think that could clog something and cause a kind of restriction? Could this be a missed signal between the pedal and then engine? something electrical...? I don't really even know where to start

also... sometimes when i'm experiencing this problem and i've got my foot on the gas (hard) and its only riding at 2000 rpm's i'll feel and hear a popping [or slight banging] noise from what sounds like the left side of the engine compartment and then the problem will mostly dissapear....

and the last bit that i've picked up... when it doesn't want to go above 2k rpms (in gear) i'll pop the clutch in and can rev it up.

Does anyone have any idea? I really don't know where to start and I just want to get to the point where I'm not contemplating cutting my losses and getting something newer (I love Gertrude, I don't want to let her go)

Thank you in advance!!!!!!

[EWAustin]

Might be time to open your maf and clean the traces. Just a thought...

There's nothing electrical inbetween the pedal and the throttle, so the problem would have to be in the fuel delivery or the ignition.

Did you get the ignition timed right? Are you sure you're not a tooth off on the timing belt? Is the fuel pressure regulator hooked up right?

Basically, if it wasn't doing it before it is (99.999%) likely that something either didn't get hooked back up again, or got hooked up wrong. I'd go over all the vacuum lines and wires to make sure everything looks kosher.

[Gertrude86]

it was doing the exact same thing before i opened it all up

[palmer]

That sounds like a fuel issue to me.


I don't know squat about BMW's though, so I may be way off.